Cynthia Pong is a mighty force
She helps people of color get the money, power, and respect they deserve
I met Cynthia Pong, a career coach for people of color, thanks to our awesome mutual friend, Maggie Lemere (whom I previously interviewed!), and have been an admirer of her work ever since — both the substance of what she does, and the way she’s grown her online footprint (which you know I think is an essential way for women to grow our power). I interviewed Cynthia via email and as I read her responses, I couldn’t stop grinning — her voice and energy are infectious. Read on to discover why she left her law career behind to launch her company, Embrace Change; how attaching to our judgment of something can hold us back; why stories play a “massive role” in helping people of color get the money, power, and respect they deserve; and more.
Psst! I’m offering a story camp for women leaders this summer (virtual! no sleeping bag required!). Don’t miss this fun, creative opportunity to play (yes, play!) with self-promotion. Only 7 spots left!
Amanda Hirsch: If a personal hero of yours was introducing you, first, who would it be and why? And second, what would they say about you that would make you feel like a million bucks?
Cynthia Pong: Oh my goodness. I’m almost embarrassed or nervous (?!) to say this, but 100000% AOC. It is actually my BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goal) to become The AOC of Work. That basically encompasses what I’m striving for with Embrace Change and I think about it all the time to keep me going!
So I would choose AOC to introduce me and frankly her saying anything at all positive about me would make me feel like a million bucks!! Simply meeting her, or even being in the same space, would be incredible. (Can you tell I get REALLY starstruck??) But, to answer your question, if she were to talk about how impactful I’ve been in reshaping, influencing, and improving the future of work for women of color, people of color, and, by extension, everyone – I would be over the moon.
Amanda: I'm obsessed with women's career stories, so of course, I have to ask you about yours! How did you decide to pivot from a career in law to become a career coach for people of color? Was there an "aha!" moment or was it more gradual than that?
Cynthia: I had both an “aha!” moment and a gradual / organic / ass-backwards journey from one to the other! The aha moment was one that I write about in my book, Don’t Stay in Your Lane, and it happened when I was in court (I was a public defender) with a client and his family. They were outraged — rightfully so — at the criminal legal system and the process that my client was going to have to go through. And instead of responding in an understanding, empathetic way, I responded in a way that showed me that I had become an apologist for a system I didn't believe in. Because of my burnout and jadedness. I won’t give away the whole juicy story around the actual conversation, but this was a catalyzing moment for me.
From there, though, I knew I needed to take a step back and remove myself from my work so that I could simply think. So I took an unpaid sabbatical (thank you to my former union for getting us benefits like that!) and did a TON of self-exploration and soul searching: Could I go back to that work? How and what would I need to change if I did, so I could do the job with integrity? If I didn’t go back, what on earth would I do? All that kinda stuff! Eventually, I got it in my head that I wanted to work for myself, so I started my own business, had a few failed iterations of that business, and after about a year and a half of experimentation, iterating, and failing forward, I landed on career coaching! From there I both niched down to specialize in coaching women of color, and since then the business has expanded a ton and we now coach and support people of color in general, as well as partnering with companies that are actually invested in the success of their POC employees!
Amanda: Backing up, I'm curious: When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? Do you see any connections between that dream and what you do today?
Cynthia: I love this question! My first memory of what I wanted to do when I grew up is from when I was about 6 or 7. I wanted to be an architect. Because I wanted to build a house that my family would live in – the bottom floor would be commercial, so we would have some kind of family business there, and then we would all live upstairs! Of course, now my family is spread out and we don’t all live near each other, nor do we run a family business–and even my business is fully virtual/remote save the odd in-person speaking engagement–so there’s not a ton of connection there!
Amanda: Maybe it’s about integrating personal and professional, though, which seems like something you’re doing with your business?
Cynthia: Oooh maybe so! I had never thought of it that way, but yes, I do think there's an artificial boundary between personal/professional/political. Not that there are no boundaries whatsoever, but even when I have coaching clients do pre-work, there are questions about their personal life (which a lot of times people say they appreciate; sometimes people say they are surprised at it, but ultimately they understand) which is because I want to know the bigger context in which they work. Work life is not everything, and ideally our work life will support and advance our personal life. Only issue is, a lot of times, it doesn’t. But that's a large part of why I do the work I do.
Amanda: In your experience, what role do stories play in helping people of color get the money, power, and respect they deserve?
Cynthia: A massive role! A lot of the work that we do in individual coaching and in the Leadership Accelerator (our leadership certification program for women of color and nonbinary people of color) is around rewriting the stories we tell ourselves about what we can do, what we can’t do, who we are, who we could be. It’s really powerful, and frankly, difficult, fraught work. There’s so much unlearning of what we have internalized and absorbed from our social conditioning as women of color and people of color. A lot of racial trauma that we have to face, grapple with, and process in order to reach our true potential and build our own career success stories.
Amanda: What's a story you'd like more people of color to know about? It can be an anecdote, a book or movie you recommend, a piece of history — anything.
Cynthia: This is a story (allegory?) I love to share. I believe it’s a Buddhist or Taoist story.
Once upon a time there was a farmer. He had a horse. One day the horse ran away. When the people in the village heard, they all said to the farmer how terrible that was, his only horse gone, how awful! To which the farmer replied, “Maybe.”
The next day, the horse came back, with two wild horses in tow! When the villagers heard, they said to the farmer what great luck this was, before he only had one horse, and now he had three, how wonderful! To which the farmer replied, “Maybe.”
Later on, the farmer’s son was riding one of the wild horses and it threw the son from its back. The son broke his leg from the fall. When the villagers heard, they lamented the farmer’s bad luck and misfortune. His only son, injured in this terrible way, how horrible and tragic! To which the farmer replied, “Maybe.”
After that, a war broke out, and all the young men were drafted into the army. But not the farmer’s son because he was injured and therefore couldn’t fight. When the villagers heard, they were thrilled for the farmer and said how great it was that he wouldn’t lose his only son to the war. They congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. To which the farmer replied, “Maybe.”
I share this with clients because so often, when something happens, we attach very strongly to our judgment about whether it’s good, bad, or something else. When, in fact, it may not be what we initially thought. Moreover, that attachment is what we over-invest in and it can often hold us back — as women, women of color, people of color — from taking the calculated risks, taking the action steps, taking the leaps that we really need to be taking in order to make the impact we want to see in the world.
Amanda: If someone reading this thinks they don’t have a story to tell — what would you say to them?
Cynthia: You absolutely DO have a story to tell. Not only that, but stories transform. This is something I learned from my friend and public speaking coach, Rhonda Khan. I love to geek out on some data and talk about stats, trends, metrics. But Rhonda is always the first to remind me, no, it’s stories that transform. It’s stories that move people, that touch people, and that catalyze action. And without action, there will be no social change. Tell your story. There are already people waiting to hear it.
Amanda: Why does the world need more women’s stories?
Cynthia: We all have a need and desire to see ourselves reflected in stories — stories in the media, stories on TV, stories in books, stories in real life. It’s what makes us feel connected, not alone. And if half of us are women, of course we need our own stories. Otherwise, we will forever feel something missing from not seeing and hearing ourselves reflected back. #RepresentationMatters Without more women’s stories, girls and young women will continue to feel like they have to contort themselves into something else in order to matter and the world and our futures will suffer. I personally feel a deep sense of conviction around the fact that if we had more women’s stories to empower and galvanize more of us, more of us would be in powerful positions, in important decision making roles, in governmental and global leadership roles. And if more of us were in those roles, we wouldn’t be in this cluster fuck that we are currently existing in.
Amanda: Anything you'd especially like to promote right now? Tell me about it!
Cynthia: The next cohort of the Leadership Accelerator! The Leadership Accelerator is the only comprehensive leadership certification program for women of color and nonbinary people of color across industries. We bring together small cohorts of leaders (your new personal advisory board!) and give them the skills, tools, and strategies to get them to the next level of their leadership. It’s been hugely transformative for the three cohorts we’ve already had, and the next cohort is specifically for Established Leaders who are already in a leadership/management/supervisor role and are looking for their next leadership role–or want to become a thought leader in their field. Interested folks can apply here. The deadline to apply for the Fall 2022 cohort is June 30, 2022. I keep the application open year-round, though, so folks can always apply for future cohorts at any time as well.
For more Cynthia…
Learn more about Cynthia and her book, “Don't Stay in Your Lane,” on her website
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